Welcome back to Alchemy for Authors!
In this week’s episode, I chat with book publicist, Larissa Banting. Larissa demystifies PR and discusses its power to boost visibility and sales of your books. Some of the other topics we discuss include:
- What sets publicity apart from advertising.
- Why going on T.V. is often the last form of recommended media publicity.
- Why podcasts are the gateway drug to publicity.
- How to get on a podcast without pitch-slapping anyone!
If you’re interested in building credibility for your brand and getting your books in front of more readers, then this is the episode for you!
Visit Larissa’s website here: https://www.larissabanting.com/
Grab Larissa’s FREE PR Checklist here: https://thirtyinthree.com/checklist
Follow Larissa on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/larissabanting/
Follow Larissa on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/larissa_banting/
Other resources mentioned in this episode: (Please note: Some of these links are affiliate links.)
- Visit my new Author Resources page here: https://jobuer.com/author-resources/
- Get the book Write to Riches by Renee Rose here.
- Enjoy a FREE week of Author Revolution’s Your Future Self meditation and hypnosis membership when you use the coupon code ALCHEMY here.
- Check out Stacy Juba’s Vision Board Toolkit for Writers here.
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Find the full transcript of this episode below.
Episode 92: Book Publicity with Larissa Banting
Jo: Hello, my friend. Welcome to Episode 92 of Alchemy for Authors: Book Publicity with Larissa Banting. I hope you’ve recovered from the spooky season. It is always one of my favourite times of the year and usually my book sales get more traction being that they’re paranormal cozy mysteries and gothic fiction. And this year has been no different. So it’s been really exciting seeing my books in the hands of new readers over the last few weeks. If you’re so inclined, you can of course check out my books at my website at https://jobuer.com.
In my writing news, I’m still working on the final edits of my gothic suspense novel, Broken Lies. It’s taken a little more time and energy than I was expecting, with some chapter rewrites, amongst other things. But I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel, with it nearly being ready for my ARC readers. And I am still hoping to maybe get it out on sale by the end of this year.
Something that I’m also excited about is I have started to compile an Author Resources page on my website under the Alchemy for Authors link. So although it’s still a work in progress, done is better than perfect and I am really enjoying seeing some of my favourite resources all together available for others to peruse and maybe find something that will help them on their author journey.
So on the resources page, I’ve included links to some of my favourite things from professional organizations, writing and podcasting software, my favourite courses on craft and writing book blurbs, and of course, my favourite go-tos for personal development and manifestation and money mindset for authors.
So right now, as you might remember, I’m enrolled in Renee Rose’s Write to Riches program, which is on manifestation and mindset around money and abundance in your author career. So of course, one of my present favourite recommendations is her book by the same name, Write to Riches.
I am also loving Author revolutions, Your Future Self meditations and hypnosis membership. And I’ve mentioned that on this podcast before. I quite often choose a particular meditation or hypnosis before I go to bed. It’s a cool way to kind of end the day with a positive mindset. So just as a reminder, you can grab yourself a seven day FREE trial if you go over to the show notes and use my link, you can check it out for yourself.
And because I’m presently putting a huge focus on mindset and manifestation, I’m also really enjoying using Stacy Juba’s Vision Board Toolkit for Writers to create my own vision board. So it’s a new month, being November, and as the year moves towards wrapping up, I’m already thinking about what my goals are for the upcoming months and for 2025. Stacy’s Vision Board Toolkit has made this process a lot easier, a lot more fun. And I’ll also make sure to include the link in the show notes for you, if you are also wanting to check it out.
So there’s three of my favourite recommendations right at this point, but do make sure that you go to my new resources page, check it out, know that I’ll be continuing to add things as I remember to. And yeah, see if there’s anything there that tickles your fancy and will make your author life a little bit easier.
Right now though, it’s time to get on with the show with learning about book publicity with Larissa Banting. So when you are ready, grab your favourite drink, find a comfy chair, sit back and enjoy the show.
Hello, my lovelies. Welcome back to Alchemy for Authors. Today, I am chatting with Larissa Banting. After a career as a professional dancer, Larissa turned her creativity to marketing and public relations. One of only a handful of professionals to be accredited by the Canadian Public Relations Society, her past clients include the City of St. Albert, Bombay Sapphire Gin, the Northern Alberta International Children’s Festival, CBC and CTV networks. Since opening her boutique publicity agency, El Bee PR, Larissa and her team have helped create a buzz about her clients, including SudShare and numerous entrepreneurs and solopreneurs. Other notable highlights from Larissa’s unconventional life include moving to Costa Rica and opening one of the first wedding planning firms in Central America, being named Top 30 Destination Wedding Planners in the World, and writing the best-selling Costa Rica Bradt Guide.
So hello, Larissa. Welcome to the show. It’s so good to have you join me.
Larissa: Hi, Jo. Thank you so much for having me.
Jo: So I would love to start, as I always do, with you just sharing a little bit about yourself and how you came to be a book publicist.
Larissa: Okay. Well, I’ve always loved books. I grew up three doors down from the public library in my little town. And I lived in that library. Like, literally, I think I read every kid’s book in the children’s section. And then my very first part time job, I was a page at the library. So I’ve always been around books. I always love that. I started, um, NPR in 1993. And did everything from working for ballet companies to, like, Bombay Sapphire Gin to the city, you know, lots and lots of different experiences as a publicist.
And then I actually was working as a unit publicist. And that’s when you’re on film and television sets, the publicist who’s basically gathering everything while the show was in production. And I ended up on a film shoot in Costa Rica in 2001, met this really cute actor on set and left everything behind and moved down to Costa Rica. And we’ve been married, we got married in 2003. So I’ve been in Costa Rica since. And in 2006 I actually had my own first book published. It was Costa Rica, the Bradt guide, for Bradt publishing, which is if any of you are from England you’re probably familiar with the Bradt guides, uh, very well-known travel guides. And that kind of solidified it for me.
So in the last few years I’ve started working with a lot of authors because it seems like, I don’t know, maybe it’s just the experience I’ve had with these authors, but it seems like the publishing houses is like, yes, we’re gonna publish your book and that’s it. Like they don’t do any kind of support when it comes to PR and everyone’s kind of left like these, you know, poor fish floundering on the banks and it’s not like the field of dreams, Oh, if you write the book, they will come and read it. It’s like, well, no, you have to get out there and market your book. And PR is a big part of that. So, I’m very much an evangelist, I’d like to think, about the power of PR and try to demystify what it actually is, because all too often I’ll get people like, oh, my gosh, my book is being published. I’m like, well, fantastic. When’s it coming out? Next week. It’s like, oh, okay. So can we get into the New York Times bestseller? Like, yeah, no, it’s not going to happen. So, I mean, you know, we’ll get into it, but ideally you should be looking at a minimum of three months, if not six months out to start digging that well, as it were.
Jo: Yeah, yeah, that’s really cool. So just for anybody that’s new to the idea of book publicists. Can you talk a little bit about what it is exactly that you do? What is your role? What is the role of a book publicist?
Larissa: Okay, so publicity is, I always like to say, it is kind of like the redheaded stepchild of the marketing world. I say that as a redhead. It’s because I think people don’t really understand what publicity is. So technically publicity is when you are working with the media. So that could be podcasts like this, for example, newspapers, magazines, television, radio, and you are getting earned media. That means that you are not going and paying for that spot, because once the money exchange hands, then it’s no longer earned, you’re doing pay to play. And there are some situations like that, but that’s marketing. Publicity is where a neutral third party is talking about you or your book or your product and they are not gaining anything. There’s no monetary exchange. There’s no, like a journalist, for example, is not allowed to take any kind of a gift, or money, or anything to write about you. So that’s why getting into the media is so valuable because it has that credibility that advertising doesn’t, right? Because anyone can go and buy an ad and say, oh, my book is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah. But if you have someone on, you know, on a radio show or in a magazine saying that, oh, my gosh, this book is the best thing I’ve read since War and Peace. That means something, right? Because the writer didn’t ask the newspaper to say that, they didn’t pay for that review to go in there. So that’s why it’s so valuable as a marketing tool, because it’s building that credibility. It’s building that authority and visibility. You’re basically piggybacking on all of the goodwill and the work that these outlets have been spending years and years to build, you know? Like just getting into, you know, top of my head, something like Forbes. Forbes has something like 46 million readers per month. Right?
Jo: Yeah, that’s great. So there are, I think, a lot of misconceptions that authors have about publicists and that. And I think you’ve talked about some of them just then, but is there any others that kind of come to mind, particularly for new authors? So, like somebody who’s maybe got their debut book and that. Are there things that you come across that they just completely misunderstand in the world of book publishing?
Larissa: Yes. It’s not just authors. It’s like, well, just get me onto the cover of Forbes. Yeah. Okay. Well, don’t you have connections? Um, no, it doesn’t work that way. So the thing is, is that no, it’s going to sound very blunt, but the reality is, the media does not care about you. They really don’t. What they care about is what value do you bring to their audience, because they are a business, and if they aren’t giving great stories to their listeners, or readers, or viewers, that audience is going to shuffle on over to their competitors. So, that’s why they are always, you know, especially when it comes to news breaking stories, they’re almost fighting over each other because they want to be the first one. They need to be where people are going to get their news, where people say, oh, that’s where I go to get value.
So, when you’re working with the media, you want to be thinking, yes, you’re releasing a book. And, like, unless you’re Stephen King, it’s not a big deal. Like, no one cares. And I know that’s harsh but I’m just being realistic. So you have to come to the media with what is the story angle that’s going to make them care? Because if the journalist doesn’t care, their readers aren’t going to care. So you’ve always got to be thinking, you have to position yourself as if you are a partner. You’re like, the media needs stories, right? And especially now, because we’re all online, it’s not like the old days where the newspaper went literally to print, and that was it. Now everybody’s got their online version. So it’s a 24/7 news cycle. It is like this giant black hole that is never, ever filled. And because there’s such a proliferation of media outlets now, and the advertising is all being stretched very thin, so there’s just not the number of journalists there used to be on staff. So there’s a ton of freelancers, but there’s still this huge need for story.
So if you can come up with a great hook, a great story angle that is going to get people interested. And it’s like, okay, if I spend the next four minutes reading this article, I’m going to come away knowing something’s going to make my life a little bit better, or listening to this podcast for 20 minutes I’m going to come away with some really great knowledge. That’s the mentality that you have to come up with. So it’s like you’re going to the media saying, Hey, I know that you need some really great material to keep your audience coming back for more. Well, let me help you, because I have these great talking points or I have these great story ideas. I mean, writers, as you know, are great at writing. If someone who’s writing, I mean, if you look at the freelancers or the staff writers, a lot of them, especially freelancers, they might be writing about a gazillion different things. Like I have a writer that I’ve known for many years, she was writing about weddings. Well, now she’s writing about fitness. Do you think she’s a fitness expert? No. Do you think she’s a wedding expert? No. It’s just that those are the verticals that she ended up getting jobs writing about.
So the reality is, I think a lot of people, they stop themselves because they think, Oh my gosh, that writer, they’re going to know that I’m a fraud. You know? They get this, um, they feel like they’re in it, what is it? Imposter syndrome. Yeah, for sure. And you’re the expert, the writer expert at writing. You’re the expert on whatever your topic is. They need you. So if you can come to them and say, Hey, I’ve got, you know, like they’re stretched thin. If you can come to them with basically everything on a silver platter, um, here’s your story ideas. I’m the expert. I’m going to bring all those background to you. And then if you, if it’s something like non fictional where you can have studies or statistics or studies, or maybe even somebody else that they can add more colour to the story, that is a slam dunk. Because then the writer is going to look at you and go, Oh my gosh, you’ve just saved me all this legwork trying to do this research, about the topic that I’m not an expert in.
So that’s your superpower. You are an expert and don’t ever forget about that. That’s what you are bringing to the media. So just stand up and own it. The moment that you do, the moment that you take that mentality of going hat in hand, going, Oh, please, sir, just a bit more, as opposed to, I’m an expert and I’m here to partner with you so that you’re going to give your audience an amazing experience. It’s a completely different, it’s a 180 in your mind shift. And that’s what you need to start going out and approaching the media with that mentality. I am here to help you. Not, hey gosh, could you do a story about me?
Jo: I think that is just such excellent, excellent advice. And I love that whole idea of authors getting really clear about the story behind their story and using that as a selling, kind of, yeah, a direction to go to, to sell it towards being interviewed and things like that. So if they can come up with that idea, that’s the story behind the story, really, I think that’s excellent.
So when you are taking on clients, are there particular clients that you’re looking for or key elements that they have already or in place that you kind of prefer to work with? Like, are there certain clients that you prefer to work with over others?
Larissa: Yes, obviously a lot, if we take on authors, it’s like their first book. But I think we’re looking for people who are open to speaking to the media, first of all, you know. Like, some people just get very freaked out about being in the public eye. And the thing is, is that you don’t have to be on television. In fact, because a lot of people might think media think, oh, my gosh, the Kardashians, I’m gonna be like, like, no. In fact, TV is the last thing that we ever recommend to clients. Because TV, you know, you’ve got 3 to 4 minutes. It’s live, it doesn’t matter how much experience you have in Zoom or doing Zoom rooms or presentations on Facebook as soon as that red light goes on. And you’re looking down the barrel of the camera everybody freezes. So we, we normally do not get our clients to do TV until they’ve had quite a few interviews under their belt, because you need to get your talking points down.
So, I mean, we’re looking for people who have a good story, you know, they have a good backstory. They have a good, uh, they are an expert in their field, right? Like they’ve got, they’ve put in the hours. They have a unique spin on things. What’s going to be fresh and new that they can bring to the table? Because if someone doesn’t have that kind of breadth of experience, it’s really hard, you know, because especially everybody wants to be like, oh, I want to be in Forbes. I want to be on Business Insider. They all want to be on these big boys. But to put this into perspective, I have a couple of friends who are contributors at Forbes, and they have four, they’re under contract for four stories per month, those four stories, they’re getting 1500 pitches per month. Mind you, half of them are garbage. Because half of them are just people throwing spaghetti at the wall. They have done no research whatsoever. You know, people pitching a man for these columns that are about women. But that’s still 750 that are maybe applicable that they have to sort through. So, I mean, that’s the kind of, that’s to get into those, and not saying it’s impossible, but you need to be, you have to be really clear on what your pitch is. What the angle is, and especially for that particular outlet.
Because every outlet, they have their own language, right? Their own dialect. Like, if you look at, let me say business magazines, just because I work a lot with entrepreneurs and business people, you’ve got Ink, you’ve got Forbes, you’ve got Fast Company, you’ve got Business Insider, you’ve got Success. You’ve got Entrepreneur. Those are all business, but they all take a different slant about the topic of business. So it’s almost like, you know, like being in England, right? You can be speaking English, but what you’re going to hear, the dialect you’re going to hear up in North Yorkshire is so different from what you’re going to hear in Devon, versus, you know, if you go up further north and head into Scotland, right? But it’s all English. But they have their own dialect and that’s exactly how I think about every single magazine, because they approach it from a different way. And so you have to be able to understand how, how does Business Insider, how do you pitch a story to them so it resonates, versus taking that same story idea and tweaking it so it is going to resonate with say Success Magazine.
I would say, think about it like a breast of chicken. You’re going to season it as you know, a certain way so that it’s going to meet those, like, you know, for Cosmopolitan, you know, Cosmopolitan is probably like a spicy chicken wing. But the same story, you’re probably going to dress it down to be like a coq au vin for something like Good Housekeeping.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah. I think those are excellent tips. I love that. Because I’m assuming you work with both debut authors as well as established authors, is there a difference about, um, different challenges or how you go about working with them?
Larissa: Well, I think a lot with debut authors, a lot of it is helping them understand the lay of the land. You know, how does this work. And just putting those expectations into reality. Right? And then with established authors, like, you know, maybe they had a home run with the last book. You know, that there’s no guarantees that you’re going to have the same success. Maybe you’ll have bigger success. Maybe you won’t. So it’s kind of just playing, like rolling with it, and trying to do your best, but also, keeping it real.
Jo: Yeah. So I would think there would be quite a lot of those conversations then, particularly with debut authors in regards to that, keeping it real and keeping their expectations in line with the industry. That, yeah, money’s not going to necessarily be falling out of the sky, and being on bestseller lists and everything right off the bat. Yeah.
Larissa: And I think also, I mean, a lot of the authors I work with tend to be in the non-fiction space. So it’s like, why did you write this book? Right? Are you planning to buy a house from the proceeds? Because, you know, unless you’re getting like an advance from like Doubleday or something, it’s probably not going to happen.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Larissa: Or are you using this to build your authority and to use it as a really, you know, like the top of the apex as a calling card for your business or service? I mean, that, I would say, that’s pretty much majority of what authors in a non-fiction space or why they write the book is to really position themselves as the authority.
Jo: Yeah, absolutely. And that works in alongside with their own personal brand and that too. I think all authors really have a brand or should be looking at having a brand, or anything like that. But, particularly if you’re in the realm of non-fiction as well, because you’re looking at being that authority in that area. Is having that brand established beforehand, is that kind of essential or do you work with people in establishing a brand if they haven’t kind of done that before?
Larissa: Well, we’re not, I mean, branding is not like part of our bailiwick. Just like we don’t do social media. We are very much, kind of like just pure earned media. So there’s people who are amazing at that. I really believe it’s like planting a tree when it comes to writing a book, and for establishing yourself as a brand. It’s like the best time to have planted a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is now. Because the thing is, if you wait to try and start getting yourself into the media when the book comes out, you are basically pushing two boulders up that hill. You know? A./ getting here’s my book here, pay attention to my book, but also, oh, and who are you? Oh, well, I’m so and so in here. So you’re pushing that boulder up the hill, right? So it’s like, you’re trying to establish yourself and your book. Whereas if you start beforehand, and you start getting yourself on podcasts, start getting yourself out into establishing yourself as an expert in your field, then you’re already, you’re building those relationships. You’re building that credibility and that authority so that when your book does come out, you’re already two steps ahead, right? Like, people know who you are. And it’s like, oh, you’ve got a book. You’ve already established relationships with the media. So it’s going to be a lot easier to go back to them and say, Oh, by the way, my book just came out, would, you know, would you like to talk to, you know, do an article about blah, blah, blah. I can get in more in depth as I have in my book. Yes. Great. Because now they know who you are.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah. So I think making those contacts and that, and just being out in the world earlier, is really, really helpful. So you mentioned podcasts as well, and you’re here on a podcast today and everything, but podcasts, I mean, they’re incredibly popular and I know I get people reaching out to me all the time to be on the podcast. Sometimes they quite often miss the mark and think it’s just a publicity for their book, which is, you know, I actually want to inform my audience and it’s about learning and that as well. So with the rise of podcasts, what is the impact on publicity and your job and everything? How do you work with that?
Larissa: Well, I mean, I love podcasts because I feel they’re kind of like the gateway drug to publicity. Because, you know, there are almost close to 5 million podcasts online. Now, interesting fact, a statistic about that, though, is only 10 percent of podcasts ever make it to episode number 21 and beyond.
Jo: Yeah, yeah.
Larissa: Yeah. So a lot of people get started, but not everyone goes through. Now that the thing about podcast listeners is that something, I think it’s like 75, 75 percent of podcast listeners will actually listen to a podcast right through to the end. So, you know, they’re very loyal. A lot of them are listening to multiple podcasts per month and per week. It is a really, it’s a growing audience, so it’s definitely, and people can multitask so people can be like, walking their dog. They can’t be washing the dishes as opposed to, you know, whereas if you’re watching television, um, radio. Yeah. Like, I mean, the great thing about podcasts that you can go, it’s on demand, but you can’t be multitasking while you’re trying to say, read a magazine or necessarily, or watching TV or whatever. So it’s really tapping into the way that people are living their lifestyle now. And the other thing about why podcasts are so popular and why I like them so much is because you can get in depth. Like, think about it, especially if you’re trying to market yourself. People, before they want to, before they buy something, no matter if it’s your book or your services or whatever it is, whatever the end game is, there’s no like, and trust factor that they need to establish, and it used to be 9 touchpoints. Now I’ve heard it being going as high as even 30 because there’s, well, cause the landscape has become so crowded, you know, everything’s vying for your attention. So how do you cut through to get people’s attention? Well, think about it. If someone’s listening to you for 20 minutes, 30 minutes on a podcast interview where you’re getting really in depth, by the time they’ve done that interview, they’re most likely have made their mind up. This is someone I feel that I would like to move further down the path with or not. And no other outlet gives you that flexibility, that depth, which is why I think it’s such a great opportunity.
The other thing is because you can slice, you can really micro slice into the verticals, and really get in front of the right audience for whatever is your perfect avatar. Case in point, one of my clients, her business was called Chair Whimsy. She teaches women how to refurbish old chairs. Talk about a super niche outlet. But we got her onto a podcast called Thrift Diving and, you know, it’s about refurbishing stuff into arts and crafts type of things. And so she went on that podcast, they ended up interviewing her for like an hour and a half. So there was a podcast, but there was also the YouTube channel that went with it. Well, she had accumulated a thousand new subscribers within a week of that podcast dropping. And there’s over 122,000 views on the YouTube channel with over 400 comments. And these were like really great comments. Like people just, oh my gosh, like your interview, it touched me and it just like… Anyways, when she opens her cart on like a 400 self-study course, and she had 34 sales from, just from those new subscribers because she was able to track everything. This was three years ago. She still has new people coming in from that podcast into her world as a subscriber, still generating sales when she opens her carts from those new subscribers. Because again, like they’re hearing it, and you know, because it was a popular podcast episode, the Google recognizes that so it comes higher in the ranking, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And then I’ve had other clients, you know, by the time they’re done interviewing on the podcast, the interviewer has been like, you know what, I’d really like to work with you. So it’s like networking, it’s, you know, the interviewer might know someone who might be perfect for what you’re doing or recommending your book to whatever.
So you’ve got to be really thinking about the bigger picture. Because a lot of people like, oh, I want to get on and I want to be on the, you know, with Gary V. Or I want to be on Entrepreneurs on Fire, which is, yeah, it’s a wonderful podcast but it’s like $3000 to get onto that podcast. And we’ve had clients on it and it’s been a wonderful experience, but it didn’t move the needle the way that these smaller podcasts did.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah. I find that really interesting. I was listening to, I was listening to a podcast the other day that was talking about podcasting, right? And talking about how often people can do better with selling their products and their books and everything like that with the smaller audiences, whether it’s podcasts or social media or everything, because they are, quite often they’ll have their super fans and it’s the super fans who, you know, the podcaster or whatnot has built the relationship with these people, with their audience and that, the listeners keep coming back week after week or whatever. So when the podcaster is talking about a product that they love, then the super fans are like, Oh, I’ve got to check that out myself. And so quite often there is more success for people coming on a show when it doesn’t have the huge big numbers because they’re not necessarily super fans. They’ve not necessarily got the same connection with the podcaster and everything. So yeah, so I found that really, really interesting. And like you were saying too, there is a podcast out there for everything. There really is. Like, you go searching, there is a podcast out there for everything.
And I think from my perspective being on this side, having a podcast and everything, my advice to people is most definitely do your research, listen to some episodes of the show, make sure that it’s actually aligned, and you’re not wasting your time, and you’re not wasting the podcaster’s time. Because, like I have a wide range of people reaching out to be on the show, and I love that, and I’ve had some amazing guests come on the show, yourself, you’re here today because you reached out and pitched to me and everything, but I’ve had others too that have completely missed the mark and I’m like, Oh, I really don’t think you’ve listened to my show because this isn’t what we’re about at all. Or they’re purely seeing it as an opportunity to advertise their product, which isn’t what this is about. This is, for me, this is to, it’s about the learning and the sharing and the teaching and the, yeah, sharing that knowledge and that, and getting other authors and writers and that inspired, and helping them make their life a little bit easier. And yeah, whether it’s craft or marketing or mindset or everything else. So, yeah. Do you have anything that you want to kind of add to that in regards to reaching out to podcasters?
Larissa: Yeah, I’m, I mean, it is a two-way street, like you said. One of the most basic things I say when I teach about podcasting is listen, listen, like, listen to at least 10 minutes of two or three episodes, because you need to know, is this the right fit? Like, maybe it’s a podcast where they don’t even have guests. Because there are podcasts where it’s just the host. And is it going to be a good fit? Like, don’t again, like, don’t waste your time, don’t waste the host’s time. Because again, there’s like, there’s 5 million podcasts out there, so you want to take, like, really look at the vertical.
And then my recommendation is always work each vertical. Like, don’t try and be like, okay, like, all right. I am a… I’m a business coach for women. So I’m going to do podcasts for women. I’m going to do podcasts for coaching. I’m going to do podcasts for like, you know, entrepreneurs. Those are, eventually you want to do all of those, but you just focus on one. It’s like climb one mountain first. And then when you’ve kind of exhausted that particular vein, go into the next one. Because for one thing, it’s going to help. Your talking points, you’re going to be getting over the stumbling and like, oh, I’m not quite sure what to say, because it’s like any muscle, the more you practice it, the bigger, the stronger that it becomes. So work on one vertical.
Brevity is best, right? Like when you get a pitch, you’re scanning. Think about yourself when you get an email at, you know, if it’s like a wall of text, your brain just goes like abort, abort, because it’s like, I can’t deal with this. So, same thing when you’re pitching a podcast, we know what gets your attention is like short to the point, you know, here’s who I am. Here’s why I’m an expert. Point, you know, like bullet points. Here’s some talking points that are going to be, I think, of interest to your audience. Like, basically, here’s what I can talk about and here’s why it’s a benefit. Right? And then how did I get in touch with them? And leave it as what do you think? Or how does this sound? Or what are your thoughts? You don’t want to make it sound presumptive that, well, of course I wanna be on a podcast, right? Because it’s not a podcast. You’re still like, you want to make it a dialogue. Like, well, what do you think? Is this a good fit? Would this be a good fit for your listeners? And leave it to the discretion of the podcaster because that tone matters. Something as small as leaving your review, like, leave a 5 star review, because like that, that matters, that goes far.
And it’s funny because there’s the odd person when we’ve pitched, and I remember one guy, oh, my gosh, he’s like, well, I want to have an interaction with you for a year. Like you’re in my, you know, be in my group and be like leaving comments on my social media. And then after a year, I’ll consider having you on, on my podcast. It was like, okay, you’re not Gary V. Some people take it a little bit to the extreme, but you got to think about like, do you, you don’t want to feel like no one wants to feel like they’re being pitch slapped, you know, right? Yeah. Boom. Yeah. Here’s the pitch. Put me on your, put me on your podcast. That’s just rude.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah. No, I honestly, like, I loved how you reached out to me. And one of the things that I really appreciated too, because I don’t know if people realise this, but there’s usually a lot of work that I do behind the scenes in preparing for anytime I’m interviewing a guest and that. But you made it so much easier for me in that you already had a list of go to questions that I can like tweak in there. And yeah, like, I don’t know, that just made my life so much easier. So it’s things like that, and everything that you’ve just said that I know for myself, really jump out to me. I’m talking about how you can benefit my audience because that’s why I’m here is, you know, I want guests on who can talk about things that I know my audience is going to be engaged in.
And there is something to also be said for relationship building, because I’ve found like a lot of my guests too, have been people that had no intention of necessarily being on my show. But it is being through just casual interactions in the author world or on social media. And then over time, it’s been that kind of, you know, that relationship and that trust and that builds up and then sometimes it’s me going, you know, I really want you on the show. Like, this is awesome. Or they’re like, Hey, you know, I was wondering would this work? And because there’s already a little bit of that relationship, even just virtually, it’s a no brainer. So there are different ways into getting on podcasts and that, but I think what’s key is just being authentic and making sure that you’re doing your research and not being pushy. And that the podcast that you want to be on actually aligns with what you want to achieve, but also aligns with what the podcast is trying to put out in the world as well. So, yeah.
Larissa: Exactly because most of the podcasters are not doing this professionally, you know. Like maybe like 1 percent are making a living from it. Everybody else they’re doing it by their passion or, they really love their topic or, you know, they are using it as a marketing vehicle to grow their authority. But like I said, like only 10 percent ever make it past 21 episodes because it is a lot of work. So it is a time, yeah, you know, I’m preaching to the choir. Like, yes, it’s great to start your own podcast, but you know, again, it’s like writing your book just because you start a podcast doesn’t mean you’re suddenly going to have thousands of listeners. Like you have to put the work in and just like writing a book. Like, okay, you’ve written the book, now you’ve got to take it and put it out to the world so that people know it exists and that’s why you need publicity.
I know if you’re with a publishing house, they will do some marketing. Usually they don’t really do much when it comes to the actual publicity. Unless you’re someone who’s like, really, you know, a top well-known writer. So that means you need to do it on your own. So I would say, yeah, start taking that well ahead of time. You know, start figuring out what are your talking points? How do you differentiate yourself from your colleagues? What makes your point of view a unique one? Why would any, like, what makes you special? What makes people want to sit up and take notice about what you’re doing? Like I said, podcasts are a lot easier. Uh, right now, the statistics are showing that there is about a 15 percent response rate when you pitch podcasts versus just under 4 percent for written media. It’s a lot harder, than like magazines and newspapers. I’m not going to lie to you, those are a lot harder to get a yes from.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah. I find that really interesting. And yeah, I love the position that podcasts have nowadays too, for having that impact and getting, um, and publicising people’s works and everything. So I think that’s really cool. So if there was an author who was wanting to do their publicity on their own, do you have any advice for them?
Larissa: Uh, yes, there is a free checklist that I’m giving to you, Jo, so that your readers, I’m sorry, your listeners can, uh, I’m sure they’re all readers as well. Uh, listening to this podcast, reading the show notes, but they can download for free because that’s going to help give you a really good understanding of what do I need to have in my marketing and PR basket for my book. So, you know, start getting really clear. What are the talking points in your book? Because especially because it’s a non-fiction book, start pulling those out. Are they relating to something that might be in the news? That’s something that we call news jacking. So, say, uh, something’s hitting the, you know, on all the front pages and everyone’s talking about around the water cooler. How could you maybe insert it? Your point of view about that, that is in line with what you’re talking about in the book, for example. What makes it timely? Maybe you have an opposing point of view. Like, maybe everyone says, oh, you should zig. Everyone zig, zig, zig. And maybe you’re like, you know what, I think you should actually zag. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, the contrarian, you know, everyone leans in, tell me more. So as long as you are doing, that’s your point of view, because you have a way to back it up. Like, this is why I think you should zag, then that makes sense. And just start, you know, like, start with the low hanging fruit. Yes, everyone wants Forbes, but start with a low hanging fruit because again, it’s like a muscle, or if you want to use a baseball analogy, you know, for those people who might watch American baseball, you’ve got your little league, you’ve got your minor league, and you’ve got your major leagues. Like, you’re not going to go up to bat at the bottom of the ninth at the World Series if you’ve never played baseball before. Right? So you want to start, so look at the low hanging fruit.
Maybe if you’ve gone to university or college, there’s always alumni magazines. Pitch a story about how your time at that institution has shaped your journey as an author, right? Or, you know, maybe it’s a professor and then now you’re becoming a published author. Like, that’s a big deal. If you can somehow tie it back in to maybe it was a professor that you had or whatever, that is gold because those, you know, they’re looking for alumni that they can point to. It’s like, hey, look at the success that our alumni have and why we’re a reason of it. Your local papers, your local television, your local, like, local media loves to support that, you know, especially authors. So if you can go and start trying to get yourself in there as an expert ahead of time, so that when it does come time for your book, you’ve laid that groundwork. Start looking, start doing your research about, like, where are those podcasts, those verticals that are going to be appropriate for what you’re a specialist in and for your book. Start thinking about what print outlets, again, like, especially if those verticals that are very niche. Don’t worry about the Forbes and the New York Times and that type until you’ve got that momentum behind you. So start kind of planting those seeds.
Part of the thing of publicity is reviewings, like, you know, you wanna get those reviews, but those can take a while, so if you’ve got a quick turnaround, we’re like, okay, I’m going to have my draft done at the end of October, and then I’m putting it on Amazon, like November 15. There’s no time to have anyone review that. Right? So take a look at the big picture, like, you need to leave yourself some time to get real reviewers. You can get professional reviews done and, um, and I’m sure your publishing house can help you with that, but it’s not something that can get turned around on a dime. Give yourself a couple of months leeway. At least I say one to two months minimum.
Jo: Yeah. I think that’s really, really good advice. I really do. That’s fantastic. So I will certainly make sure that the free publicity checklist is in the show notes as well. But just to wrap up here, how else can people connect with you and where can they find you and all that lovely stuff?
Larissa: Okay, well, it’s pretty easy because I’m the only Larissa Banting in the world, which is maybe a good thing. Maybe that’s not such a good thing sometimes. I’m just kidding. My website is larissabanting.com so you can check me out there. And, yeah, if you just Google, I’m on LinkedIn, um, Facebook, I am on Instagram. I’m going to be honest, I’m not much of an Instagram girl. But yeah, so you can connect with me on social media and check out my website and hopefully take advantage of the list as I think it’ll be very helpful for you.
Jo: Yeah. Oh, that’s wonderful. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I think it’s been really eye opening or will be for a lot of people, just hearing your background and what publicity is and isn’t and some of your tips and tricks and stuff. So I appreciate that. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Larissa: Thanks Jo.
Jo: Here are some takeaways from today’s show:
1. Publicity differs from standard advertising in that it’s not pay to play, but rather it’s earned media and offers more credibility than standard advertising.
2. The media doesn’t care about you. They care about the value you bring to their audience.
3. Pitch media agencies as being an expert on a topic, come prepared and know your topic, have a unique story, or spin on things.
4. Every magazine has its own language and dialect, even within a theme or topic. Do your research.
5. It’s never too early to start creating your brand.
6. Podcasts allow you to go in depth about your topic in a forum that suits most people’s lifestyles.
7. Podcasts allow you to get in front of your niche audience and accrue credibility and network.
8. Don’t turn your back on smaller podcasts. They often have a loyal following of super fans.
So I hope you enjoyed today’s episode and it’s got you inspired to reach out to other media outlets to promote your books. To learn more about book publicity, of course, you can reach out to Larissa at https://www.larissabanting.com/.
You can visit my website at https://jobuer.com for the transcript of this episode. And while you’re there have a peruse of my new Author Resources page for links to some of my recommendations, or check out the show notes for the links for today’s top three recommendations that I mentioned at the beginning of this episode.
If you enjoyed today’s show, and I hope you did, I encourage you to leave a review if you can. Reviews help my podcast find new listeners, which helps me keep this podcast going. Also, sharing this episode, or Alchemy for Authors in general, with a friend, is also greatly appreciated. Alternatively, you can support the show by making a donation at https://buymeacoffee.com/jobuer. For the price of a coffee, you help support my time and the behind-the-scenes costs of running this show. But as always, your support, in whatever form, even just tuning in today, is always super appreciated. Next episode, I have another fabulous guest on the show. You are most definitely not going to want to miss this one! But until then, I am wishing you a wonderful start to November and a wonderful writing week ahead. Bye for now.