Welcome back to Alchemy for Authors!
In this week’s episode I interview author and centenarian, Babette Hughes, about writing later in life, and her new book, Lessons in Evil.
We also discuss:
- Why Babette waited until her eighties to become a published author.
- Why we should rewrite the narrative around aging.
- How Babette came to write Lessons in Evil.
- Why it’s so important to tap into your emotions and unconscious when writing.
- How a traumatic childhood influenced Babette’s stories.
- The role gratitude can plan in your writing career and in banishing imposter syndrome.
- Why “lucky” people aren’t all that lucky!
If you’ve ever used the excuse that you’re too old to go after your dreams, or have wondered what’s the secret to living a happy life, then this is the episode for you!
Visit Babette’s website here: https://www.babettehughesbooks.com/
Find Babette’s books here: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Babette-Hughes/author/B001K8I026
Follow Babette on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/babettehughes
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Find the full transcript of this episode below.
Episode 82: Writing Lessons From A Centenarian with Babette Hughes
Jo: Hello, my lovelies, welcome to Episode 82 of Alchemy for Authors: Writing Lessons From A Centenarian. Today’s episode is so timely for me. It’s full of deep reminders around how we spend our days is how we spend our lives. A quote I hold dearly. It is also a reminder as to the preciousness of life.
On a personal note, as of late, you may have noticed listening to this podcast, or if you received my newsletters, most of this year I’ve been struggling pretty severely with mental, emotional, and physical burnout. It has been ugly. And if you have ever experienced burnout, although for me, this primarily stems from one area of my life, it is impacting on all areas of my life. So for my author life, that’s meant that this year I’ve had to cancel multiple book related events and deadlines. And at this point, I’m facing the reality that I may not write any new books this year. And honestly, that sucks. As a writer, you will know that not writing can be painful. Putting this podcast out fortnightly has been one of the only things that I’ve actually been able to keep afloat. And even then, it has been really hard. So let me tell you, which I’m sure you already know, but when you’re a writer who’s temporarily not writing or publishing, imposter syndrome runs rife.
But here’s why today’s episode is so inspiring. Today I have the privilege and the pleasure of sharing with you my interview with author and centenarian Babette Hughes. Babette was born in Cleveland, Ohio and grew up in the time of prohibition and bootleggers. Her father was one of the first rum runners in the country and was murdered by the Mafia in a turf war at the age of 29. Babette was just two at the time.
Writing has allowed Babette to draw from her unusual life experiences to create her characters and to tell their stories, and sometimes cautionary tales, in vivid detail. Although she has always been an excellent writer and even published a memoir, Lost and Found, Babette’s first novel, The Hat, wasn’t written and published until she was in her late 80s. She followed that with two more books in the Kate Brady Trilogy, The Red Scarf, and The Necklace. Other books followed, including Searching for Vivian, 97 Speaks, and The Secret of Happiness. Now, Babette is 101, and she has penned her masterpiece, Lessons in Evil, published in February 2024.
Babette still writes every day with the fluidity and grace of a woman half her age. “The truth is liberating, but sometimes elusive,” she explains. “I’m always looking for it and how to best write about it, and I probably always will.”
So, if you have been going through a hard time of late, or are frustrated because your career goals are not going to plan, then I hope today’s episode helps to ground you and give you again the perspective, as it has for me, that this too shall pass. So when you are ready, my friend, grab a drink, find a comfy chair, sit back and enjoy the show.
Welcome to the show, Babette. I’m so excited to have you join me today.
Babette: I’m very happy to be here with you.
Jo: So I would love if you can share a little bit of your really fascinating life and how you became an author. What led you to start this writing journey?
Babette: That’s a very open question which I love. I love that because I can just start right in. So I’m 101 years old. I’m experiencing what we all hope for and dread, I believe. We want to live long, but we don’t want to live badly. It’s a tight rope. And I’m trying to be conscious of how best to deal with it, you know, without denial without just sitting and watching TV. Without thinking I’m done. Those are the ideas that I have been working on. And I find that most of the ideas about old age are wrong. It can be a very, very good time. It can be the best time of one’s life. Because a little research I did when I asked people would you like to be young again? No, nobody, nobody wants to go through that again. So it puts another priority, another, you know, creative idea. I think it’s very creative to find a way to live a a new way. And that’s been a priority for me to try to share it with others so that they can also make these some of the best years of their life.
Jo: Wonderful. So what are some of the tips then that you have for making this the best time of your life? What are some of the things you do?
Babette: The first thing that comes to mind is to ignore the culture. Our culture teaches us wrong. Our culture teaches us that old age is, oh, that a person is out of it when they get older. That the individual is done with life. That’s just so wrong. Again, we don’t want to go back to being young, God knows. We’re here if we’re lucky, we’re here until we are old. It, you know, it’s a whole… it opens up a whole new way to think about life. How I got to it is, I am not sure I know. It’s just that I do not as a person accept culture’s ideas. I just don’t, because culture is so powerful and it can teach us the wrong things about our lives. Don’t you think?
Jo: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so I found that your backstory is really incredibly inspiring because you came to, it sounds like you came to the writing life or at least publishing your first novel when you were quite late in life, in your eighties, is that correct?
Babette: Yes. Yes.
Jo: Yeah. So, do you feel then that in the second half of your age that there’s more creativity? Or why did it take you later in life before you started writing?
Babette: That’s life. That’s marriages, that’s raising children, that’s all of the challenges we all have in life.
Jo: Yeah.
Babette: My early life had the tragedy of violence. I believe it’s known from your referring to the backstory that my father was murdered. And he was a bootlegger and he got into a fight with the mafia and the mafia won, you know. The mafia always won in those days. Trying to think what else would help me with these ideas, and it always goes back to the culture. We learn what the culture wants us to learn. And again, it is so powerful. We don’t know about our choices. We don’t know about our choices. And we have them. We have choices we don’t use. I believe that.
Jo: Yeah, I think that’s really powerful what you’ve just said there. I agree with you there. That I think sometimes we don’t realize that we have the choices that we have in our life. So, yeah, that’s powerful.
Babette: Including your choice of rest.
Jo: Yes, which like I said, I am a work in progress with rest, but it certainly does make a difference and make a difference to my creativity.
Babette: And we don’t get support from our culture for rest. We don’t get it. So, you know, in a way, when you think about your life, maybe the place to start is with the culture. I mean, we can come up with a lot of things. One thing I think is powerful is the idea of Prince Charming rescuing us. That’s powerful. And it’s in our culture from time we’re a little girl. It’s not true. It’s not true. We are all responsible for our own state of happiness.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s wonderful. I think that it is something that, um, and I certainly feel it with women as well, is that we do give our power away in all areas of our life because of these cultural expectations and that on us. And so, yeah, particularly nowadays, we’re expected to be able to do everything, to have the family, but also have the job, but also, you know, keep the house and do this and do that and yeah. There’s more and more added and it does lead for a busy life.
Babette: And you know, again, the culture gives us power. So, following up on that idea, we have to examine what our culture is telling us. We have to not just, you know, accept it without questioning, and it’s not easy to do, but it’s rewarding if we can do it. It is rewarding. It does make a difference.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So I think you’d published another book before your first novel: The Hat. Did you have people supporting you at that time, or did people kind of go, oh, no, what are you doing writing books at your age? Or what was that like?
Babette: Well, mostly supportive.
Jo: Good.
Babette: Mostly supportive. I, you know, we do get glimpses of people in our lives that are living a little differently and a little better. Don’t you think? And we gravitate to them because we do find what we need. We do find support from others. And I started late in life. But I was, you know, a late bloomer in many ways, in many ways. So, part of it was economic. I was able to write full-time for the first time because I had to, um, I had to work. So I was not able to work a job and also write full-time. Are you doing that?
Jo: No. So I work full-time and then usually when I write there’ll usually be a couple of months while I’m working full-time that I’m just all in. And so it’s early mornings, late nights, and then I go for periods of time where I’m not writing. I almost need to like refuel and then do that again. So I’m a little bit of a kind of sporadic binge writer. But yeah, it can be definitely hard balancing a full-time job and writing or anything like that on the side. It can be a lot.
Babette: It certainly can be a lot, which inspired your title. And you know, again, it’s for women, mostly, because, again, we’re the ones that do the stuff. We are. For families and for ourselves and all that.
Jo: So what does your writing routine look like then? Do you write every day?
Babette: When I’m writing, I write every day. I’m up very early, which isn’t like me at all. I’m up at five or six. And I’ll just sit there and write and write and write. Mostly I throw out what I write.
Jo: Yeah, I think we all do that.
Babette: Yes, I think we have to. That’s how we get to the good stuff.
Jo: Yeah, exactly. And so you have a novella out, or that came out in February called Lessons in Evil. Can you talk a little bit about this book of yours?
Babette: This is, I believe, my best work. It’s my ninth work. It’s one that took me the longest time. And it’s an emotional, just as a side thought, I find emotion to be so important in fiction. It isn’t always available to us as writers. But this book, which is about a family caught in the Holocaust, is full of emotion. And the emotion for me was that there, for the grace of God, was me. I could have been in one of the camps because it was my generation that Hitler destroyed. So it had a built in emotion. It had a built in unconscious. You know? Unconscious of dreams, the unconscious of writing, like this, like you’re writing and you write a paragraph, and you don’t know where it came from, you know? You say, Hey, that’s pretty good. Where did that come from? Well, it came from the unconscious. And that’s where the emotions are. That’s where the fierceness, that’s where what we don’t want to be conscious. But when we’re doing creative work, it is so important and so rewarding. For me, that’s what I’m hoping for when I sit down, right? I’m hoping to get to that unconscious state because of what I just described. I hope I’m being clear.
Jo: Yeah. Well, I think I understand you there. That’s where that juiciness is to the story. Where you can really connect with human emotion, and yeah, and just those deeper feelings that the readers then respond to as well.
Babette: Yes. Yes.
Jo: Yeah. What do you want your readers to take away from the story?
Babette: Well, of course it’s, this is in the, I guess, good culture, that we must never ever forget this horror that went on with Hitler in Germany, and that we must learn from it. I don’t know if human beings are capable of understanding this hate. I’m trying to be clear, but, you know, by definition, the unconscious isn’t clear. It’s not. So this kind of talk takes me a little while to try to communicate, you know. What I want to take away is, you know, gosh, that was a good story and that was an important lesson for all of us. And I understand that politically there are uprisings of anti-Semitism and hate for groups and all of that. That just may be embedded in the human nature. Do you think?
Jo: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s a subject that needs to be talked about and written about more and more, because I think we do forget. Unless it’s brought to our attention all the time, it’s so easy to slip back into ways that are, yeah, not good. That can be hateful and things like that. So I think it is all the more important, particularly at this time of age, to be keeping history almost at the forefront of our minds so that we know not to repeat what’s been before.
Babette: Yeah. Right. And the tendency is because it’s so horrible, the tendency is to forget and that’s not very good. I’m taking a long time for your question. What do I hope to accomplish? First of all, of course, you and I and other writers, we want to write a good story. Period. Without any other things. We just want a good story. And I think this book, Lessons in Evil, is a good story. It’s got suspense, and it’s got mystery, and it’s a novella. It’s very short, but it’s my longest book. You remember that line? Maybe you’ve heard it. Where, I’m sorry to make this letter so long. I didn’t have time to make it short.
Jo: Yes, that’s true though. It is.
Babette: It’s so true.
Jo: Yeah, I find for myself whenever I’m writing a novel, I have to cut a huge amount out. In fact, any type of writing that I do, I have to pare back and cut so much out. I always tend to write too much.
Babette: That’s the way you do it. You write too much. I write too much. Because isn’t it true that when we write too much, sooner or later, we’ll get to the gem. That’s what I want to say.
Jo: Yeah, absolutely. So this book took you a long time, it sounds like, percolating and that to be written. What was the hardest part of this book for you to write, do you think? Was there a part of the writing aspect that’s particularly hard, or the publishing part?
Babette: That’s a good question. No, it wasn’t. This book was unique to me that I just, it was like in my heart, in my head somewhere. I think when we talk about the unconscious, I think it’s when we have it for a long time, it’s always, you know, again, like dreams. That’s the unconscious. So, this book was unique for me because the answer is that it just went. And when I had to throw things out, I had no problem. I knew I had a character in there. I came to know that it had to go. It had to go. It’s as if this book was already written in my soul or something because I was so with it. I don’t know if I’m babbling. Am I babbling?
Jo: No, no, not at all. Not at all. I can absolutely relate with that. And, for me, that’s my favourite part of the writing process is when it flows, when it feels like it kind of comes from you, but also from beyond you as well. And it’s, yeah, it’s just magical.
Babette: Yes, it’s very well said. Yes. And doesn’t it keep us writing?
Jo: It really does. Because yeah, that is the magical part. That is the part where you feel inspired while you’re doing it. And you can be surprised too, by what comes out, you know, you’re not stuck to exactly what’s going to happen in the book. That’s when you get your surprises as well.
Babette: Oh, the surprises are wonderful.
Jo: Absolutely. So do you have another book on the agenda? Are you thinking of writing another one?
Babette: I may, but I have a physical problem. I have macular degeneration, which it makes your eyesight very poor and eventually gone.
Jo: Oh, oh, that’s tough.
Babette: Yeah. It’s awful for anyone and it’s really awful for a writer.
Jo: Yes, absolutely.
Babette: But I’ve had many challenges in my life, and I think I’ve learned, I’ve developed tools from those past problems. I’ve developed tools to deal with misfortune. And not to say I’m not totally upset with what’s happening to my eyesight. I also have been able to bring up the wisdom that I need, which is to try to make every day good that I have left. And when I feel lost, I come back to that. And it has helped. It helps me.
Jo: Yeah. I think that’s really powerful. And I think that’s something that we all need reminders of all the time, because it’s so easy to just get pushed along in the rush of life that we forget to actually live and enjoy the moments as well.
Babette: That’s so true. Isn’t it?
Jo: Hmm. Would you have any advice for your younger self then? If you could kind of go back and speak to your younger self about how to, how to do life, how to enjoy life, how to make the most of it.
Babette: I’m not sure I was able to do that younger, but that’s a good question. But on the other hand, I know that I am able not to be overcome with my losing eyesight. I know I learned how to deal with it from having to deal with former problems. So, the tools are earned for us. And that’s why they’re effective because we earn them by taking care of ourselves and our families and our life in our world.
Jo: Yeah. I love that. I was going to ask if you had advice for dealing with misfortunes and when, you know, the universe sends you curve balls and that in life, but then you’ve kind of also said that you do have to earn it as well along the line. You earn the knowledge and the knowing of how to deal with these things.
Babette: Lucky people that haven’t had to deal with bad things are not lucky because when they’re hit with life, they have no tools, they have no way to deal with it. They haven’t had it opportunity to learn. So they are more overwhelmed than someone who has already gotten the way to live with problems, learn from problems.
Jo: Yeah. And so you had quite a traumatic beginning really to your life with what you were saying with your father being murdered by the mafia and everything like that. Do you feel that during your journey through life, that helped you deal with other things that have gone wrong, and misfortunes and that in your life? Do you think that set you up to kind of be able to face challenges differently?
Babette: Yes, I think so. It’s not ordinary misfortune. No. It’s violent. And at my age, I was two years old and, you know, you’re more affected at that age by events. So it had a profound effect on me. But I had psychoanalysis and it saved me. In those days, if you went to a psychiatrist, you were considered crazy. This was in 1955. I was a pioneer. Freud hadn’t been dead that long. And there I was going every day. That was the psychoanalytic process. You go every day. It’s not done anymore. It can’t be done. It costs too much. But I had to go. I knew that. And it’s just saved me. It got me out of a terrible marriage that I wouldn’t have been able to do without that help. So, that was a monumental experience for me.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah. And I think these things that happen to us and the things that we go through in life, whether we write about them or not, they still colour our stories. The emotion or something still can come through. And I think our readers connect with that because we bring a little bit of our past experience, whether consciously or unconsciously, into our writing and the stories of our characters as well. Do you feel that?
Babette: Absolutely. But I think it requires communication on a deeper level than is ordinary.
Jo: Yeah.
Babette: Do you think?
Jo: Yeah, I do. I do. And I know you’ve also written a book of essays on moments in your life called The Secret to Happiness. So even though you’ve been through a lot of misfortune, you’ve obviously had some good things happen too. And you’ve talked about, you know, really focusing in on trying to make the most of every day and that. In your perspective, what do you think the or some of the secrets to happiness are?
Babette: You know, again, it’s losing happiness that gives you the energy and the insight and the, uh, importance of happiness. That you have to, at least I’m thinking that your question reminds me that I did not have happiness, but because of what things you and I are talking about, I learned. Sometimes I think you learn from bad things more than good things in life.
Jo: Yes. Yeah, I would agree with that.
Babette: And there’s so many ideas that you and I have talked about that are not widely accepted or understood. It’s again the culture and the idea of choice that is powerful, I think.
Jo: Yeah. Your life story: what you’re doing, what you’ve done, is so inspiring. And I think, um, I hope my listeners are really going to connect like I am about the fact that just that importance of really embracing who we are, the good, the bad, the things that we’ve been through and knowing that there is no age limit on going after the things that really inspire you. Writing obviously brings you joy. I can see that. And so that’s hugely inspirational that you’re still doing this.
Babette: Well, I’m pleased that you think that. Because it would be, of course, so rewarding to me. Because when you live a certain way that is not widely understood or used, it’s such a pleasure to communicate what you want to communicate. It’s like irresistible. And I’ll talk your ear off.
Jo: Yeah. So what is your advice for people then that might’ve been putting off doing that thing that lights them up? That might’ve been putting off writing their first book for any, you know, any slew of reasons or excuses and that, that they tell themselves? What advice would you give them?
Babette: Well, first of all, I would advise that they examine themselves realistically. And if they are understanding that, you know, you’ve heard it, I’ve heard it. Oh, I could write that. It’s very, very, very hard to write. Well, it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of energy. But you need to understand that. If you do, then you must just write. You must not wait for inspiration. You have to get it yourself by writing, and writing, and writing. And throwing the stuff out, and throwing the stuff out, and finding a section that you never would have written and where did it come from? That’s such a pleasure. But I, also think that people don’t, lay people don’t understand how much time and effort and disappointments go with writing.
Jo: It’s not an easy task. Not at all. And there’s lots of, you know, there can be a lot of self-doubt and imposter syndrome. Have you experienced that at all while you’ve been writing?
Babette: I’ve experienced what, say again?
Jo: Self-doubt, like doubting your capabilities for doing it or that feeling of like imposter syndrome. I know a lot of authors struggle with that feeling like, oh, who am I to write this story? And I don’t know what I’m doing. And have you ever had that experience through the writing process?
Babette: Yes, I have, I’m sure I have. But I don’t have it for very long. I tell myself to, you know, stop thinking negatively.
Jo: Yeah, yeah.
Babette: That’s also powerful isn’t it, Jo?
Jo: Absolutely.
Babette: Yeah, focus on the pleasures of which we have ample pleasures that are awaiting us, but it’s as if humans don’t choose those. They choose the worst. There’s some people that are talking about happiness and all of that. And one of the things they all say is to have gratitude. And have gratitude for your day when you wake up in the morning. There’s something to be grateful for. And it’s not just a pretty thing to do, it’s a thing that gives energy. And it’s that inspiration and confidence in your ability to write.
Jo: Yeah. 100%. I’m with you with that. Gratitude is, yeah. On the tough days, because we all have those tough days, that’s always what I go back to is finding those things that I’m grateful for. And I can start small and then build my way up, but it’s really focusing in on those things that. Even in the dark times, there’s always so much to be grateful for.
Babette: It’s so mending. It mends ourselves. We have a different idea of what it is to be a person, what it is to be alive. We can give that to ourself with gratitude.
Jo: Yeah. Yeah. That’s very, very powerful.
Babette: But it’s not easily done. And I don’t know why, but it’s not.
Jo: No, I think it’s a practice that we really need to imbue in our daily routine. Like it’s something that we need to practice, to do over and over again until it becomes something that we can fall back on much easier.
Babette: Exactly. That’s such a good point. That these goals we’re talking about are more accessible once we do it twice, we do it, you know. And when it becomes more or less of a habit or more or less frequent, it helps the next time that you want to express gratitude. It’s these things, don’t they, they have energy of a good stuff or negative stuff. And once you get on one or the other, they’re hard to get out of.
Jo: Yeah. Absolutely. You need to be very, very focused in on what you want to achieve at the end of it, how you want to be, how you want to feel, so that you can actually move towards those goals of feeling better and looking for that next best feeling.
Babette: Yeah. And it’s all doable.
Jo: Yeah.
Babette: It’s doable.
Jo: Well, it has been so wonderful chatting with you today, Babette. Where can people find your books and how can they find you? Where can they find you, connect with you online?
Babette: Oh, yes. My book is available on Amazon. I’m available to anyone. I loved our conversation. I just, you know, I’m particularly thinking of women. I think our insights are very helpful to women, to women’s lives. And that’s my hope, you know.
Jo: Well, I so appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your time with us. And yeah, I just, I think you’re such an inspiration for other people, and I hope that I can be doing what you are doing and still writing and that when I am your age, and if I’m as lucky to get there, and yeah. And you’re a huge inspiration and I so appreciate you spending this time with me today.
Babette: Well, it was a pleasure. It was a pleasure. And I know that you with your, you know, this conversation about your own insights, they’re yours, you know, that’s belongs to you. And it’s precious. It’s precious.
Jo: Thank you so much, Babette.
Takeaways from today’s show:
1. Reconsider your culture’s ideas around age. Rewrite your own narrative about what it means to age.
2. Question the assumptions you grew up believing. Question ideas around rest, being rescued by Prince Charming, and your role in society as a woman or man.
3. We are all responsible for our own state of happiness.
4. The most rewarding part of writing or other creative pursuits is when you tap into your emotions or you’re unconscious. Your readers will respond to that.
5. Write long, then pare it back to get to the gems.
6. Losing happiness makes you truly appreciate having happiness. You learn more from the bad things than the good things in life.
7. Be aware that writing a book can be hard. It can be fraught with disappointments. Is now the right time to write? And if it is, then do it. Don’t let anything stop you.
8. Make gratitude a regular part of your daily practice.
And 9. You never know how long you have left on this earth, so make every day the best you can.
So there we have it my friends, I hope you enjoyed the show as much as I did. I found Babette such a joy to talk to. If you’ve been going through a tough time, I hope today’s episode has helped you in some way. Even if it’s just with a reminder that wherever you find yourself right now, it is completely possible that your story, the story of your life, may have barely even begun yet. We can correct course as many times as we need to get to where we’re going. You can rewrite your narrative.
So if you’ve enjoyed today’s show, please consider supporting it. It really does help me to keep this show alive and encourages me to keep it going. You can support the show by leaving reviews or ratings wherever you’re listening to this podcast: Apple, Spotify, Amazon, YouTube, for example. Sharing with a friend is always greatly appreciated and helps me to grow my audience. Alternatively, you can make a donation to support the costs associated with this show by going to https://buymeacoffee.com/jobuer. To stay in the loop of future episodes, make sure to join my newsletter list and get your free PDF on Manifestation for Authors. Just go to https://subscribepage.io/manifestationforauthors. You can find the transcript of today’s episode and all past episodes on my website at https://jobuer.com/. And of course, all these links you will find in the show notes as well.
So thank you so much for tuning into this episode, my friend. I am wishing you a creative and inspired week ahead. Bye for now.
author mindset, Centenarian, Gratitude, imposter syndrome, indie author, writing a book